又擱是Dante:一件事物伊本身是會當感受啥nih?

Chòe kīn Youtube sak hō͘ góa khòaⁿ chi̍t tōaⁿ Tiong-kok lâng chián-chiap Jensen Huang(NVIDA thâu-ke 黃仁勳N̂g Jîn-hun) siū hóng-mn̄g ê iáⁿ-phìⁿ, tī iáⁿ-phìⁿ ē-bīn khòaⁿ tio̍h chi̍t-ê kám-kak sī Tiong-kok-á ê lâng liû-giân ín-iōng chi̍t tōaⁿ——iū ko̍h sī Dante——ê ōe. Góa chi̍t hong-bīn kám-kak kî-koài i tī chia ín-iōng hit kù si̍t-chāi bô siáⁿ koan-liân, chi̍t hong-bīn koh kám-kak hoâi-gî, Dante kám-ū kóng kòe hia ê ōe, sī tī siáⁿ khoán chêng-hêng hā kóng ê?
最近Youtube捒予我一段Tiong-kok人剪接
黃仁勳受訪問ê影片,佇影片下面看著一个感覺是Tiong-kok-á ê留言引用一段——又擱是Dante——ê話(是按怎我無愛寫但丁呢?因為人按怎唸嘛無「丁」這ê音;「等宅Tán-the̍h」卡接近,毋擱卡歹看)。我一方面感覺奇怪伊佇遮引用彼句實在無啥關聯,一方面擱感覺懷疑,Dante敢有講過遐ê話,擱是佇啥款情形下講ê?

Hit kù ōe Hôa-bûn sī án-neh 彼句話怹ê華文是按呢:
「一件事物愈是完整,它所感到的欢乐和痛苦也愈多。」

Chi̍t kù ōe góa sī lú tha̍k lú bē thóng. Góa tō khì bāng-lō͘ téng chhâ-chhōe, lóng chi̍t-kóa Tiong-kok ê mih-kiāⁿ, tī ín ê 豆瓣téng ū lâng tah chi̍t tōa kōaⁿ, m̄-koh bô siá bêng sī tī tó-ūi. Góa ài kui tōa tōaⁿ tha̍k chiah ē-tàng kā hit tōaⁿ chhōe chhut-lâi:
這句話我是愈讀愈袂通。我就去網路查揣,攏是一寡中國ê物件,佇怹ê"豆瓣" 頂有人貼一大綰,毋擱無寫明是佇佗位,我愛規段讀才會當共彼段揣出來:
(...)
一件事物愈是完整,
它所感到的欢乐和痛苦也愈多。
虽然这些受诅咒的人决不会
达到真正的完整,但看起来
后来总要比以往更接近它些。(...)


góa chòe-āu sī khì kiò ChatGPT thè góa chhōe chhut--lâi ê. ChatGPT chi̍t khai-sí hō͘ góa Eng-bûn ê : “The more a thing is perfect, the more it feels pleasure an pain.” Kóng si̍t-chāi góa tha̍k bô siáⁿ ū. In-ūi góa sī leh siūⁿ, nā sī kóng sī “mi̍h-kiāⁿ”ia̍h sī kóng ”sū-bu̍t” chi̍t khoán bô seⁿ-miā ē mi̍h-kiāⁿ, i sī beh án-chóaⁿ hō͘ lâng kám-kak iah sī ka-kī kám-kak tio̍h khoài-lo̍k kap thòng-khó͘ neh?Góa tō kiò ChatGPT ài chhōe chhut italiano, koh kiò i kái sòe. ChatGPT sī chi̍t-ê chin chhù-bī ê chō͘-chhiú, lí nā hoâi-gî i bô jīn-chin i tō͘ ē piàn chiok koai, sòa lo̍h lâi lóng chiok siông-sè kái-sòe, chhōe chu-liāu.
我最後是去叫 ChatGPT替我揣出來ê。ChatGPT一開始予我英文ê “The more a thing is perfect, the more it feels pleasure an pain.” 講實在我讀無啥有。因為我是咧想,若是講是 『物件』 抑是講『事物』這款無生命ê物件,伊是欲按怎予人感覺抑是家己感角著快樂佮痛苦呢?我就叫ChatGPT愛揣出italiano,擱叫伊解說。 ChatGPT是 一个真趣味ê助手,你若懷疑伊無認真伊就會變足乖,紲落來攏足詳細解說揣資料。

M̄-koh lán mā chāi ChatGPT ū sî mā bô siáⁿ khó-khò, só͘-í góa mā sī ka-kī koh chhōe chi̍t-kóa in Italia choan-bûn leh kóng Dante ê bāng-chām. Khòaⁿ tio̍h góa khah ē-tàng chiap-siū ê kóng-hoat.
毋擱咱嘛知ChatGPT有時嘛無啥可靠,所以我嘛是家己擱揣一寡Italia專門咧講Dante ê網站,看著我卡會當接受ê講法。

Dante ê goân bûn 原文(佇地獄篇ê第6首Canto VI:103-111):

(…)per ch’io dissi: «Maestro, esti tormenti
crescerann’ei dopo la gran sentenza,
o fier minori, o saran sì cocenti?»

Ed elli a me: «Ritorna a tua scienza,
che vuol, quanto la cosa è più perfetta,
più senta il bene, e così la doglienza.

Tutto che questa gente maladetta
in vera perfezion già mai non vada,
di là più che di qua essere aspetta».(…)


góa mā lâi hoan-e̍k chi̍t pái 我嘛來翻譯一擺:

só͘-í góa kóng:«Lāu-su, chia ê chek-bôa
tī Tāi-sím-phòaⁿ liáu-āu sī ē piàn tāng,
kiám khin, iah sī koh chhiūⁿ chit-má án-neh leh sio?»
所以我講:「老師,遮ê折磨
佇大審判了後是會變重,
減輕,抑是擱像這馬按呢咧燒?」

I kā góa kóng:« Lí tńg-khì khòaⁿ lí sìn-gióng hia ê kho-ha̍k,
hia tō ū kóng, sū-bu̍t nā sī lú oân-siān,
i tō lú kám-siū ē tio̍h hoaⁿ-hí kap thòng-khó͘.
伊共我講:「你轉去看你信仰ê科學,
遐就有講,事物若是愈完善,
伊就愈感受會著歡喜佮痛苦。

Sui bóng chia ê siū chiù-chhàm ê lâng,
éng-oán tō bē-tàng ta̍t kàu oân-siān ê tē-pō͘,
chóng-sī tī hia pí chia khah ē tàng kî-thāi. »
雖罔遮ê受咒讖ê人,
永遠就未當達到完善,
總是佇遐(大審判以後)比遮卡會當期待。」

Téng-bīn chi̍t tōaⁿ chêng 3 hâng hit ê bāng-chām ū kái-sòe kóng Virgilio (維吉爾)kap Dante kóng:《Lí tńg-khì khòaⁿ lí sìn-gióng hia ê kho-ha̍k, hia tō ū kóng, chi̍t ê seⁿ-miā nā sī lú oân-siān, i tō lú kám-siū ē tio̍h hoaⁿ-hí kap thòng-khó͘.》(chia kóng ê kho-ha̍k sī Aristotele ê ha̍k-soat)
Āu 3 hâng ì-sù sī kóng:《Sui bóng kóng chia ê siū chiù-chhàm ê lâng, éng-oán tō bē-tàng ta̍t kàu oân-siān ê tē-pō͘, chóng-sī kî-thāi Tāi-sím-phòaⁿ í-āu, in ê seⁿ-miā mā ē-tàng ta̍t-kàu oân-boán ah.》
頂面這段前3行怹彼ê網站有解說:「抑伊共我講(Virgilio佮Dante講):你轉去看你信仰ê科學(Dante信仰亞里斯多德ê學說),遐有講,一ê生命若是愈完善,伊就愈感受會著歡喜佮痛苦。」
後3行意思是講:「雖罔講遮ê受咒讖ê人永遠就未當達到完善,總是期待大審判以後,怹ê生命嘛會當達到完滿矣。」

一寡註記:
“elli” 就是現代咧用ê “egli他”

“la cosa” Italiano ê意思是「物件,事物」 若是攏無看前後咧講啥,一般人一定會想講是「物件」,若按呢就會出現「一件事物愈是完整」這款ê解讀,尤其大部份ê人攏是看英文翻譯咧理解Dante,這款因為無讀完整引起ê誤會就攏袂解決。所以講,看物件愛看完整,毋通只看引言短語。任無就會像華文講ê「斷章取義」。

“maladetta” 就是 “maledetta”

“questa gente maladetta in vera perfezion già mai non vada,“ 遮ê受咒讖永遠未當達到完善ê人,

Tutto che……di là più che di qua essere aspetta 雖罔/雖然……佇遐比佇遮卡受期待。 là遐,就是大審判以後ê彼岸。

Góa mā khì péng chhut góa ûi-it bé kòe ê chi̍t thò Hôa-bûn hoan-e̍k ê Dante, Hiang-káng ê 黃國彬kàu-siū hoan-e̍k ê pán-pún. Tī i ê hit pán tē 203 ia̍h sī:
我嘛去反出我唯一買過ê一套華文翻譯ê Dante,香港ê黃國彬教授翻譯ê版本,佇伊ê彼版第203頁103-111是按呢:

(…)討論時,我說:「老師呀,這些痛苦,
在大審判結束之後會增多
還是減少,還是會嚴酷如故?」

維吉爾答道:「請參考你信奉的學說。
根據該種學說,生命越美善,
就越能深切感受快樂和憂惙。

這些遭天譴的人,雖然
從未到達真正圓滿的程度,
卻指望屆時變好,比現在圓滿。」(…)

Kî-si̍t siá kàu chia tō í-keng ū kàu ah, lán mā khah chheng-chhó téng-bīn kóng ê “事物”kî-si̍t sī chi̍t-ê siⁿ-miā, sī Lâng, án-neh m̄-chiah ē-tàng kám-siū tio̍h hoaⁿ-hí kap thóng-khó͘, kui kù chiah ū ha̍p-lí.
Góa it-hiòng tùi lâng leh ín-iōng ê bûn-kù lóng ē chin sè-jī lâi khòaⁿ-thāi, tû liáu chhiūⁿ téng kóng kòe chi̍t chióng loān tàu chò chhut ū-miâ ê lâng kóng ê ōe chí gōa, gōa kám-kak siōng giâm-tiōng ê sī bô chèng-khak, m̄-kohkhiok-sī í-keng sì-kè liû-thoân ê hoan-e̍k. Sui-jiân chi̍t-má AI chin lī-hāi, ē-tàngchin kín chò chhut bē-bái ê hoan-e̍k, m̄-koh chhò-gō͘ iah sī ū, lán nā siūⁿ beh hó-hó gián-kiù liáu-kái chi̍t-kóa mi̍h-kiāⁿ, pún-sin ài chò ê kong-khò iah sī bē-tàng pàng, pí-lūn-kóng kā gí-giân o̍h hō͘ hó!
其實寫到遮就已經有夠矣, 咱嘛較清楚頂面講ê「事物」其實是一个生命,是人,按呢毋才會當感受著歡喜佮痛苦,規句才有合理。
我一向對人咧引用ê文句攏會真細膩來看待,除了頂擺有講過一種亂湊做出有名ê人講ê話之外,我感覺尚嚴重ê是無介正確,毋擱卻是已經四界流傳ê翻譯。雖然這馬AI真厲害,會當真緊做出袂䆀ê翻譯,毋擱錯誤猶是在,咱若想欲好好研究了解一寡物件,本身愛做ê功課猶是袂當放,比論講共語言學予好!


Motto:
翻譯並不完全可靠,有時是錯誤,有時因為某一種原因,出版物會去予人改編、刪減。
就算這馬AI翻譯愈來愈進步,嘛是會不時出現不正確ê結果。會當親身熟識一種語言,雖罔了時了工,毋擱猶是最可靠的。有家己ê判讀力,就袂予人牽咧戇戇旋。

下面一寡英文版予咱知影翻譯偌有意思,有ê人足好讀,有ê人足礙謔:

https://www.owleyes.org/text/dantes-inferno/read/canto-6#root-422365-1

For thus I question'd: "Shall these tortures, Sir!
When the great sentence passes, be increas'd,
Or mitigated, or as now severe?"

He then: "Consult thy knowledge; that decides
That as each thing to more perfection grows,
It feels more sensibly both good and pain.

Though ne'er to true perfection may arrive
This race accurs'd, yet nearer then than now
They shall approach it."


http://dantelab.dartmouth.edu/reader?reader%5Bcantica%5D=1&reader%5Bcanto%5D=6

Wherefore I said: "Master, these torments here,
 Will they increase after the mighty sentence,
 Or lesser be, or will they be as burning?"

And he to me: "Return unto thy science,
 Which wills, that as the thing more perfect is,
 The more it feels of pleasure and of pain.

Albeit that this people maledict
 To true perfection never can attain,
 Hereafter more than now they look to be."


https://infernobydante.wordpress.com/2013/10/23/canto-vi/comment-page-1/
John Ciardi(1916-1986)是一个美國詩人,伊是伊大利亞移民後代

(…)
“Master,” I said, “when the great clarion fades

Into the voice of the thundering Omniscience,
What of these agonies? Will they be the same,
Or more, or less, after the final sentence?”

And he to me: “Look to your science again
Where it is written: the more a thing is perfect
The more it feels of pleasure and of pain.

As for these souls, though they can never soar
To true perfection, still in the new time
They will be nearer it than they were before.”(…)


https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Italian/DantInf1to7.php

Of this I asked: ‘Master, will these torments increase, after the great judgement, or lessen, or stay as fierce?’ And he to me: ‘Remember your science, that says, that the more perfect a thing is, the more it feels pleasure and pain. Though these accursed ones will never achieve true perfection, they will be nearer to it after, than before.’


中國ê豆瓣頂揣著ê,毋擱怹頂下文湊袂起來,掠這段就好:
https://book.douban.com/annotation/101064656/

(…)
一件事物愈是完整,
它所感到的欢乐和痛苦也愈多。
虽然这些受诅咒的人决不会
达到真正的完整,但看起来
后来总要比以往更接近它些。
(…)”

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